Comments on: Cocoa Firefox nightly builds on Mozilla FTP server http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/ Mozilla, Firefox, Josh's Life Sun, 20 Dec 2009 01:39:49 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: haleonearth http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2033 haleonearth Tue, 13 Mar 2007 04:05:13 +0000 http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2033 I'm assuming the primary target audience for "Cocoa Firefox" is the average Mac OS X end-user. Most such users are probably not Objective C, Python, or Ruby, etc developers and even more of them not developers of any flavor at all. So while it's true that Cocoa is technically an API, the name is unfairly expecting the average mac user to grasp the geek-speak of the name and not to confuse it with the more widely known meaning that median users associate with the phrase "Cocoa application". In other words a more sophisticated feel marked by high osx-integration and exceptional user friendliness. This is in no way merely about cute little aqua aesthetics. Wikipedia reflects this sentiment as well (of course for all anyone knows I could have put this in there myself; I swear I did not and I also know wikipedia isn't the word in stone), nevertheless, whoever wrote this understands what Cocoa means to non-programmers. "For end-users, Cocoa applications are considered to be those written using the Cocoa programming environment. Such applications usually have a distinctive feel, since the Cocoa programming environment automates many aspects of an application to comply with Apple's Human Interface Guidelines." Throwing down the technicality card is weak at best. I can prove to you that Kleenex isn't a paper tissue but instead a registered trademark of the Kimberly-Clark Corporation. That said, many people often ask for a paper tissues as Kleenex; and 10 times out of 10 the person closest to the tissue box will hand them a paper tissue without need for clarification. Regular Mac users don't care what an API is, nor should they. This has the feel of a Linux crew who touts their OS as a positive alternative to Windows, but just as soon as a nix-noob comes around asking noob questions, they get ridiculed due to the expectations projected onto them by the nix-nerdz. The fact that Cocoa technically refers to just an API is inconsequential since in the minds of the market share of OS X users, Cocoa means "OS X Pimpin!" I’m assuming the primary target audience for “Cocoa Firefox” is the average Mac OS X end-user. Most such users are probably not Objective C, Python, or Ruby, etc developers and even more of them not developers of any flavor at all. So while it’s true that Cocoa is technically an API, the name is unfairly expecting the average mac user to grasp the geek-speak of the name and not to confuse it with the more widely known meaning that median users associate with the phrase “Cocoa application”. In other words a more sophisticated feel marked by high osx-integration and exceptional user friendliness. This is in no way merely about cute little aqua aesthetics.

Wikipedia reflects this sentiment as well (of course for all anyone knows I could have put this in there myself; I swear I did not and I also know wikipedia isn’t the word in stone), nevertheless, whoever wrote this understands what Cocoa means to non-programmers.

“For end-users, Cocoa applications are considered to be those written using the Cocoa programming environment. Such applications usually have a distinctive feel, since the Cocoa programming environment automates many aspects of an application to comply with Apple’s Human Interface Guidelines.”

Throwing down the technicality card is weak at best. I can prove to you that Kleenex isn’t a paper tissue but instead a registered trademark of the Kimberly-Clark Corporation. That said, many people often ask for a paper tissues as Kleenex; and 10 times out of 10 the person closest to the tissue box will hand them a paper tissue without need for clarification.

Regular Mac users don’t care what an API is, nor should they.

This has the feel of a Linux crew who touts their OS as a positive alternative to Windows, but just as soon as a nix-noob comes around asking noob questions, they get ridiculed due to the expectations projected onto them by the nix-nerdz.

The fact that Cocoa technically refers to just an API is inconsequential since in the minds of the market share of OS X users, Cocoa means “OS X Pimpin!”

]]> By: Diego Cato http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2032 Diego Cato Mon, 05 Feb 2007 00:35:34 +0000 http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2032 Senate Democrats won their first major vote against the Iraq war. Now they need to get some Republicans on board... Senate Democrats won their first major vote against the Iraq war. Now they need to get some Republicans on board…

]]> By: Sten46035 http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2031 Sten46035 Mon, 22 Jan 2007 23:02:24 +0000 http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2031 I haven't been up to anything these days. So it goes. I can't be bothered with anything these days. I haven’t been up to anything these days. So it goes. I can’t be bothered with anything these days.

]]> By: Cato the Elder http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2030 Cato the Elder Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:36:49 +0000 http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2030 Great work! I give it a try last night, and Minefield will probably my default browser when it will be stable. None of the ugliness of Firefox on Mac, and all its extensions. Great work!

I give it a try last night, and Minefield will probably my default browser when it will be stable. None of the ugliness of Firefox on Mac, and all its extensions.

]]> By: David Latapie http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2029 David Latapie Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:40:21 +0000 http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2029 penguin said:

« I don’t understand why people think XUL is particularly bad or even slow. This wouldn’t be any different than having a build »

1. Get a Mac
2. Download Firefox. Use it
3. Download Omniweb. Use it

That will speak for itself. But you are right on one point, XUL is not that slow. At least, not slower than the Mac port of Opera.

]]> By: Julik http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2028 Julik Sat, 26 Aug 2006 00:10:54 +0000 http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2028 This is awfully nice but I'm wondering what's goign on with Cairo/Quartz. Basically Firefox on the Mac is unusable for me as long as #121540 lasts (I don't see pages displayed properly even though I have the right fonts available). Who is doing the Cairo/Quartz? Ar there any estimates on the timeframe when it lands in the trunk? This is awfully nice but I’m wondering what’s goign on with Cairo/Quartz. Basically Firefox on the Mac is unusable for me as long as #121540 lasts (I don’t see pages displayed properly even though I have the right fonts available).

Who is doing the Cairo/Quartz? Ar there any estimates on the timeframe when it lands in the trunk?

]]> By: Nick Clement http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2027 Nick Clement Wed, 23 Aug 2006 09:36:04 +0000 http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2027 Hmm, I installed Minefield, now have deleted it after a few unsuccessful attempts at running the app. Back to Firefox now, but all my extensions are greyed out. Can anyone help? Hmm, I installed Minefield, now have deleted it after a few unsuccessful attempts at running the app. Back to Firefox now, but all my extensions are greyed out. Can anyone help?

]]> By: Gabriel Radic http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2026 Gabriel Radic Sun, 20 Aug 2006 20:12:07 +0000 http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2026 The WebKit developers went trough the same dilemma, and found the best compromise in a set of rules based on CSS usage. IIRC, if only font properties are changed, the system widgets are used. If the size, border, padding or color are affected, a more neutral shape (aka dumb windows gray) is used. Not sure about the exact properties they defined as triggers, and their site is offline. Worth a look.. http://www.google.com/search?q=+site%3Awebkit.opendarwin.org+form+controls The WebKit developers went trough the same dilemma, and found the best compromise in a set of rules based on CSS usage.

IIRC, if only font properties are changed, the system widgets are used. If the size, border, padding or color are affected, a more neutral shape (aka dumb windows gray) is used. Not sure about the exact properties they defined as triggers, and their site is offline.

Worth a look..
http://www.google.com/search?q=+site%3Awebkit.opendarwin.org+form+controls

]]> By: Marc Klein http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2025 Marc Klein Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:50:16 +0000 http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2025 This said Mr. Smokey Ardisson, in your world we should all drive the same looking car, wearing the same clothes, living in the same looking architectural house, using Apple computers and iPods, ... etc. pp You can easily replace a submit button by a simple GIF or JPEG graphic. Therefore, I do not see your argument in concern of security on this point. Otherwise one could believe every web developer who uses CSS to customize the appearance of form widgets on his website is a potential criminal. " Long live the difference " graphically & sincerely, Marc Klein Pixel:Industries This said Mr. Smokey Ardisson, in your world we should all drive the same looking car, wearing the same clothes, living in the same looking architectural house, using Apple computers and iPods, … etc. pp

You can easily replace a submit button by a simple GIF or JPEG graphic. Therefore, I do not see your argument in concern of security on this point. Otherwise one could believe every web developer who uses CSS to customize the appearance of form widgets on his website is a potential criminal.

” Long live the difference ”

graphically & sincerely,

Marc Klein
Pixel:Industries

]]> By: Smokey Ardisson http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2024 Smokey Ardisson Sat, 19 Aug 2006 21:15:20 +0000 http://boomswaggerboom.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/cocoa-firefox-nightly-builds-on-mozilla-ftp-server/#comment-2024 Users, however, expect their form widgets to look like the widgets of their operating system, not some garish creation of an author who, in many cases, is designing for Windows (and even “neutral cross-platform” looks end up looking like Windows and sorely out-of-place on a Mac).

Consistent widgetry is also an aid to security for the user—if a form button always looks like an OS button, the user is always going to know that pressing that object will submit a form; if a button has been styled beyond recognizability, the user loses the ability to clearly see that clicking will submit a form….

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